Marriott’s Ty Breland on Workplace Flexibility

Roula Amire (01:01):

Welcome to Better by Great Place to Work, the global authority on workplace culture. I'm your host, Roula Amire, Content Director at Great Place to Work. Ty Breland, CHRO of Marriott joins me today and this episode is all about change and reinvention and what that can do to your bottom line. They've changed how they schedule jobs to give their people flexibility, they've changed how they define who's a leader and the mindset around leading people, and they've created brand new roles like a guest experience expert, which has had a big impact on employees and their guests. If a nearly 100-year-old company can modernize and adapt to the changing workforce, anyone can. And what's so striking about their story is that they're in an industry, hospitality, that struggled to bring workers back after the pandemic, and now business has never been better. I hope their story will help you rewrite your own. Check it out. Well, hi Ty. Welcome.

Ty Breland (02:02):

Great to be here. How are you doing?

Roula Amire (03:03):

I'm good. Great. Is Ty short for anything or ...

Ty Breland (04:04):

Tyson.

Roula Amire (05:05):

Tyson? Okay. Do people ask you that or just me?

Ty Breland (06:06):

Only when I'm in trouble with my mother.

Roula Amire (07:07):

I like it. That's why I'm asking. So Ty, we've met before, we met via Zoom two years ago when Fortune asked me to interview you for an article on Marriott's 25-year run as one of the 100 best companies to work for. I'm not sure if you remember that, but ...

Ty Breland (08:08):

Really?

Roula Amire (09:09):

It was about two months after I started this job and I was learning so much. So it was a bit of a blur, but I do remember being pleasantly surprised that you didn't talk in corporate speak, you told stories. It was really easy to have a conversation. So I know today will be no different. I don't want to start us off by triggering any PTSD, but let's briefly go back a few years. Your industry took quite a beating during the pandemic. You had to shut down your hotels for the first time in 100 years. You had to furlough most of your workers. Your revenue fell overnight. On top of that, you introduced a new CEO Tony after the passing of Arne Sorenson who was beloved by everyone who knew him. And then post COVID you like others in hospitality, had a hard time bringing people back for many, many reasons.

Life looks much different now and we'll get into all that today. But before we do, I just want to zoom out for a minute because in researching you, I learned you became CHRO about five months before COVID, and if you're in HR, the chief human resources officer is the goal of anyone in HR. You're in charge of all people. It's quite an accomplishment. And you got there after 20 years with the Marriott and then the world implodes. This happens. So were there some things you learned about yourself that surprised you or that you leaned into during that time?

Ty Breland (10:10):

Jumping into this role in the midst of the pandemic, you absolutely learn a lot about yourself. Probably something new every day, maybe even every minute. There were a lot of unknowns and really just things changing so rapidly. But one of the things that I think has always anchored Marriott is really putting people first. As we were going through the pandemic wherever we could, we went out and spoke with our associates, taking the opportunity to really listen, to learn. And I think the pandemic really gave not only Marriott, but I think all companies a reminder of how important their people are to their success and not just the individual as an employee, but the individual as a whole person. I think everyone was going through something during the pandemic and coming out of those listening tours and really hearing our associates, we came back and one, really wanted to focus on that whole person. Their physical, their mental, their financial wellbeing. So we started to really design our strategies around that.

I think the other piece that really started to unfold is how fast things were speeding up. So things like we're doing today, being on video, taking advantage of flexibility, shifting the way work is done. We saw a lot of this coming prior to the pandemic, but it was really accelerated and really taking that moment not to be scared of doing it different, but really leaning into it and changing the way things could unfold in the future. And so taking advantage of technology, taking advantage of working differently, really leaning into that was an important ingredient in helping us get through the pandemic.

Roula Amire (11:11):

When we look at where Marriott was then and where you are now, it's quite the story of resilience and the impact culture and HR have on business performance. You've set hiring records, you're in the top 10 of the 100 best companies to work for the first time ever, and that's the result of many, many things. And we'll touch on some of those things today, like flexibility, the majority of your workforce is on the front line and we know that ever since the pandemic, people are looking for flexibility. And there are industries like hospitality or retail where employees can't choose where they work, but that doesn't mean you can't offer flexibility to those workers. So let's go through some of the ways you do that at Marriott because I think it will give our listeners ideas of things they can consider in their workplace. Let's start with schedule. Before, a manager would create the schedule. Now employees get to co-create their schedule with their manager. You can correct me if I summarized that [inaudible 00:06:05].

Ty Breland (12:12):

Yeah, absolutely.

Roula Amire (13:13):

So can you expand on that a little bit and tell me why you were able to do this and the impact it's had?

Ty Breland (14:14):

Sure. So I think first and foremost, as you're going through the pandemic and the emergence of remote work, you nailed it. A lot of that's not applicable to many of our associates. The 90 plus percent that are on property serving our guests physically at the hotel makes that a bit of a challenge. But I think as a leadership team, we really wanted to tackle that and think about flexibility different. And when we're really back to the listening tour piece, when we really were listening to our associates, what they were looking for was intraday flexibility. Many of our associates have families, they have commitments outside of work and we really never want them to miss out on those opportunities that are so important to them. And so having that ability to be flexible with their schedule was extremely important.

And sometimes that can be planned a week or two in advance, but sometimes it just happens. Maybe you're waiting for that pediatrician appointment to come through and it does the night before you have to go on your shift the next day. We wanted to give our associates the ability to share their shift, to offer it up to another associate. Maybe they grab a shift later in the week that works better for them and their family, but we didn't want them to miss out on those opportunities.

We also looked at different jobs and said, "Hey, some of these jobs are planning the budget or payroll during the course of the week. Could that function be done at home and they're at the property the other day?" So we really tried to be creative, not a one size fits all. Many of our properties are different, but we really pressed on the organization to think about flexibility in a broad sense.

Roula Amire (17:17):

Let's talk some specifics. I know you have job sharing, multiple people or two people can share a role. You have people who can just work on the weekend if they want. You can have a compressed work week schedule. You've added more part-time roles to be able to create this flexibility. So you're really working around people's lives outside of work instead of having a set defined schedule. Can you talk a bit about how employees are enjoying this?

Ty Breland (18:18):

Thinking about this in a couple of different buckets. So from a manager level, those have historically been full-time positions. One person's doing the job. As we came on the other side of the pandemic, we had several situations where our associates needed to stay home, not every day or maybe not all day. And so we started to think why can't we share some of these jobs? Why can't this be a split job between two people that are performing what used to be one single job and get really creative about it? It doesn't work everywhere but where it could, we took advantage of it. I think on the non-management or hourly side of the business, it really was about that schedule and creating your own schedule. Like many companies, the majority of our workforce was full-time before and we would fill the entire schedule with the full-time associate and then where we had anomalies in the schedule, we may offer it up to part-time, which would be probably not the most desirable shift.

We flipped that logic and really looked at people creating their own schedules and having an influx of part-time mixed with full-time associates and thinking about how we did the schedules very differently. I think what that gets you is a more engaged and committed workforce. We've seen that in our numbers. I think you also build a bit of community. I think sharing some of the things that are going on in your life and things that you have to tackle with your coworkers is an important component that I feel like has been expressed to a greater extent post-COVID than it was prior. But bringing that whole person to work and how we can all help one another, maybe it's picking up that shift or helping with that report, I think it makes us a better organization, I think it makes us a better community and I think we have more impact.

Roula Amire (20:20):

Right. You don't just flip a switch and something like this works. Can you share some advice of how someone listening can approach something like this if they want to try out job sharing or creative scheduling? I know this was very iterative and it took some time.

Ty Breland (21:21):

Yeah, absolutely. And I think before we go tactical on the scheduling piece, I would step back for a second on how we really helped seed the organization to start thinking a bit differently. As we were coming through the pandemic and what we were hearing from our associates, we quickly realized that we had amazing values across Marriott. We had an amazing culture, but the culture needed to be modernized. The workforce was shifting. We needed to make sure that the things that we felt were taking care of our associates were indeed doing that. And so we came up with our people strategy really around these three signature elements.

First is growing great leaders, making sure that we had the right leaders in the right jobs at the right time. And also talking about leadership at all levels, not just a title, not a price point, but if someone's willing to follow you, you're a leader.

Second is really investing in associates and we were purposeful in using the word investment. A lot of times you would refer to this as cost of wages or cost of benefits. We talked about it as an investment because we felt there was really a return. And so really layering that into the mindset of those leaders to think about investing in our associates.

And then there's access opportunity, really looking at not just hiring for a job. Anyone can hire for a job. We really wanted to hire for careers and help our associates know that if you join Marriott, we were going to invest in you and help grow your career. And if that's something you're interested in, this is the right place where you can be yourself and grow a career.

I think those pieces had to be seeded up front for us to even do things like scheduling differently, staffing differently, having the courage to do some of the things we haven't done in the past was really enabled by these three signature elements of everyone thinking and acting as a leader, investing in associates and the true importance of access to opportunity for those associates that are both with us currently or that we're attracting to the company. But I think once we unlocked those three components, the things like scheduling naturally evolved and started to happen and our GMs were leaning into it and great ideas were even coming to do it better than we even thought when we initially launched some of these solutions.

Roula Amire (22:22):

Right. Yeah. Thanks for highlighting that you have to build a foundation for change before making changes like this. Let's talk about flexibility and role next. I know you've created something called Integrated Jobs or iJobs where you combine a few roles into one and create a role that wasn't there before. So if you're in housekeeping or the bellman, you can only go so far in those roles. But with a new job like guest experience expert, that opens a lot more opportunity. Can you talk a bit about this and the impact it's had?

Ty Breland (23:23):

So think about a guest experience expert. All of us travel and stay at hotels. You walk in, you really want one person to help you with whatever you're going to need at that point in time. So a guest experience expert is not only your front desk agent, but they also can serve the role of concierge or anything else you need sort of in that front of the house capacity as you're coming into the hotel before you're going to your room. In the past, that would've been three or four different jobs, but the consumer appreciates having one point of contact. The associate likes having the variety in their job, and they feel like they're really solving and caring for the guest in a more authentic and complete way.

So what we've seen from that is not only is the customer experience higher, so our intent to recommend scores go up, our cleanliness scores go up, guest engagement scores go up, but also associate engagement. So we see lower turnover at those hotels that have fully adopted iJobs. We see higher associate engagement, higher leadership index. You name the metric, revenue, et cetera. All of the metrics go up because the associate feels closer to their role in being pulling through their purpose, the customer of course feels that and everything starts to really work. So it's been something that it benefits our associates, it benefits Marriott and it benefits our customers. So it's win-win-win.

Roula Amire (24:24):

How many new roles have been created or the percentage of employees participating in iJobs to give us a sense of how big that program is?

Ty Breland (25:25):

Yeah, so I think the easiest way to think about it is a typical hotel is probably right around 200 rooms. And so at a typical hotel that's 200 rooms without iJobs, you could have 30 to 40 different types of positions. With an iJob solution, those jobs are cut down by a third. So you have kind of the same number of roles, but you're combining the functionality of the role. So it doesn't mean the staffing model is necessarily dropping to a third. It just means you're taking three jobs and making them into one that makes more sense from a customer experience standpoint.

It does allow for better scheduling because you're able to take in, a lot of times people check in at a hotel at the same time and they check out at the same time. But all those moments in between, you're able to give the associate a variety of different things to do. And so we're right now, as we look across the globe, I would say that 90 plus percent of our hotels have adopted iJobs. Percentage within the property, I'd say we're probably about 50 to 60% there, and certain jobs are just a lot easier, like the front desk experienced job [inaudible 00:16:03], it's intuitive, it's easy and you can make it happen.

Roula Amire (26:26):

I want to go back to something you talked about earlier, which is about leaders. You said you're changing the concept of leaders from a title to a behavior. So if someone's willing to follow you, that means you're a leader. My question is, does that mean that a frontline worker in a non-management role can now apply for management roles? Have certain prerequisites changed or are you saying that now everyone is offered leadership training?

Ty Breland (27:27):

Let's talk about leadership mindset. So a leadership mindset is what I mean by leaders at all levels. Having that leadership mindset is absolutely important that every day you're waking up thinking like a leader, you're curious, you're courageous, you're connected. That mindset can go across the entire spectrum of associates in your organization. Jumping into a management role is a little bit different, but I would say have we changed how we think about that? Yeah, I think that we're taking a bit of a bolder bet on our non-management associates jumping into management roles. They know our business extremely well. Oftentimes it's giving them and having the courage to apply for those jobs, having the right sponsorship. So I think across the organization, as we've been focused on this, organically, we've always done a great job of having individuals cross from non-management to management. But recently we've really wanted to double down on this effort and we've launched a program that we call Elevate, which is really targeted at our non-management becoming managers.

And so since launching that program, we're seeing big changes in who's being hired in our first level management jobs. So right now, one in every four hires that we're making in our entry level management positions are coming from our non-management population. And it's a focus, it is giving these associates sort of that push or nudge or confidence to apply. It's then really helping them with the right tools, resources, sponsorship. As part of this program, something we did that I felt was very unique that the team proposed was giving them all coaches. So we have an outside coaching partner that's connected to each of these associates. And coaching was something like most companies was reserved for your executive level, your VPs and above. We really turned that on its head and really put coaching at the non-management level for these associates that were really pursuing these management opportunities. So they had the best chance to not only land in one of these positions, but to truly thrive in those positions.

Roula Amire (28:28):

Oh, well, I'm sure. You're telling and showing them that you want to invest and grow them. That's equity of opportunity. I mean, that's what that looks like and your business is stronger as a result of that. I want to come back to the article I mentioned at the beginning of our episode. We've heard today all the work you've done over the past few years and how you've listened to your employees and what they need. And that article talked about how you've been on the 100 best list since inception, and it takes a lot to build a high-trust culture and always adapting to what your people need and want out of work. I know someone listening might think, "Well, sure the job is easier if you have a supportive leader and a great culture. I'm over here just trying to get my CEO to take a meeting with me." But with we've heard there's no easy path when you're in charge of people. You can't be on cruise control. You always have to be iterating and changing. I'm curious to hear your thoughts on that.

Ty Breland (29:29):

I think it goes back to something, we have a wonderful benefit here at Marriott with having a Mr. Marriott. So he's our chairman emeritus. I've had the opportunity to work with him in different capacities over the years, but one of his favorite sayings is, "Success is never final." And so we can have a great year, but how do we do a better job next year? We can have a property really performed, but how do we dial it up for next year? We're taking care of our associates. How do we do a better job of taking care of our associates? So I think that relentless quest that success is never final is ingrained into our DNA at Marriott.

And to your point, yeah, we have a lot of leaders that are super supportive of putting people first at Marriott. And so that probably does make some elements of my job maybe easier than others, but I would say that, and this is probably for the broader HR community, you have to have a seat at the table. You have to demand a seat at the table. And once you're there, you have to have a voice. And once you have your voice, you have to make sure you're heard. And the best way to do that is to really listen and to understand the business and how you apply HR to fuel the business.

And if you're doing that, leaders across all disciplines, across all parts of the globe will get behind that. Most people want to do the right thing. Most people want to perform, most people want to succeed. But I think for the HR community, and I think how we try to do things as a team is that we really understand the business, all aspects of it. And so once we have that firm understanding, we're better able to apply the right HR solutions and strategies to propel the business forward. And we measure things. We're relentless on our analytics and connecting those dots, but I think it's first and foremost being a business leader that really cares about people.

Roula Amire (30:30):

That is great advice. Hey everyone, if you like listening to the podcast, then don't miss the Great Place to Work For All Summit in April and Las Vegas where you will learn from the best in the world, meet more than 1500 leaders and get insights on what the data says drives business success, and that's people and culture. I promise you'll leave inspired and ready to transform your workplace. Register today. Use the code better to save $200 off registration. Link and code are in the episode bio. Don't miss out and I'll see you there. What advice would you go back and give your younger self? So we're switching gears now talking about-

Ty Breland (31:31):

I think it's important. I had an opportunity early in my career to meet David Novak who was at the time the CEO of YUM! Brands. And it was an innocent interaction, but he made a statement that really stuck with me and I think I have tried to live it every day and it was really be yourself. A lot of times executives get roles and they're trying to be what everyone wants them to be or to be this version of something. And I think it's important to be authentic. You can repeat it, you can show up that way every day. And I think if I was telling my younger self that earlier, trust yourself. If you feel something and you know it's the right thing, really lean into it. Bet on yourself, but be authentic to who you are. And so that doesn't mean that you always have to get your way. It doesn't mean you're always right, but it does mean that you leave it all on the field. And so you put it out there and if the decision goes a different way, you're aligned with the team. [NEW_PARAGRAPH]And I think that's an important piece to think about. There's a big difference between agreement and alignment. And a lot of times young executives and maybe even myself, early in my career, I thought success was getting everyone to agree. That's not the goal. The goal is to get everyone to align. So if you're just agreeing, probably people are not pushing back enough. The idea is probably not as thought through as it needs to be. And if it's that easy to agree, you should have probably done that years before. Your goal is to get alignment. You're going to have some individuals that are fully on board and some are not but everyone's going to believe in giving it a shot. And then you have to believe in if it doesn't completely work, you're willing to change it.

Roula Amire (32:32):

Do you create a sense of wellbeing for yourself?

Ty Breland (33:33):

You have to. Look, I have an amazing wife and I have two girls that I care about more than anything in this world, and they remind me every day what's really important. But there are definitely little things that I picked up over the years, especially having my daughters. I would say I grew up in a generation where you're first in the building and you're last out, and that's just what you did. And I think as I've matured and grown, and I think as times have changed, I've realized the importance, as I mentioned earlier, this work-life blend. And I think this sort of understanding that it's not going to be perfect and the idea of a balance of being 50-50 and I'm going to go home at the same time every day. It's not real for a job that I have. But what is important is that when I am with my family, I'm present.

And a little hack I picked up, I was actually at a leadership development program years ago and another colleague from a different company, we were sharing best practices. The practice I picked up from him was when I'm coming home from the office, most of the time I'm on an airplane flying somewhere, but when I'm in town and I'm driving home from the office, when I'm a mile from my house, I get off the phone, doesn't matter who I'm talking to, doesn't matter what it is, I end the call. And I take that last mile to process my day, and I just take the time to decompress so that when I pull into the house, I never have a situation where I'm holding up my finger to tell the kids, "Hey, I need one more minute. Dad needs to finish up this call." When I pull in the garage, I can get out and the kids can come out and we can embrace and hug and we can have that conversation. I switch into dad mode. How was their day at school?

And it doesn't sound like a whole lot, but I can't tell you how many times before I started doing that, I was sitting in my garage, I would leave the door open, but I'm on a call and I'm holding up my finger to tell one of my daughters, "Hey, just two more minutes so Dad can finish up this call." But that little behavioral change that I've kept in play for the last 10 years plus, it makes a big difference and it gives me that opportunity to close off that element of the day at that point in time, engage in that, and then I'm back in my home office and doing something later at night once I put the girls to bed. But it gives me that moment of exchange and embrace with them that's so important.

Roula Amire (34:34):

I love that. And I think that could work for people like me who work from home to take a minute after you shut down your computer for the day and you walk from one room into the other.

Ty Breland (35:35):

It's funny because last year I traveled 200 plus nights. My kids always think I'm there. I'm gone all the time, but they think I'm there. And so I think a piece of that is when I'm traveling, I really try to engage with them on their homework. We use FaceTime a lot, but when I'm home, I try to really make sure that I'm giving them that quality time. Now, just like any other executive, of course I'm working at home and I'm working late and all those things, but that moment, whether it's at dinner or it's at practice that they're going to, or it's helping them prepare for a performance, that's their time with their dad and really making sure that I'm all in those moments.

And the same thing at work. I have to be all in with my team. I can't be distracted when we're really working on something hard. They have to know that I'm completely focused. And so being able to switch on and switch off is an important component and gives you that sense of feeling like you're really accomplishing something and hopefully not burning yourself out. But these jobs are hard. Being a parent is hard. Putting it all together is harder, but there are ways to do it if you blend it correctly.

Roula Amire (36:36):

You're talking about being present. It's kind of that meditation mindset. Wherever you are, you're there, you're focused and you give 100% to whomever's in front of you. And it sounds like that's been very helpful. Speaking of, I don't know if you have time, but if you do, is there a book or podcast you'd recommend to your peers?

Ty Breland (37:37):

It's interesting. I'll of course, share, it's a couple of podcasts I listen to, but I've always tried to really balance ... I love to read and I'm constantly trying to take in whatever I can every day, but I've always been very purposeful about reading about things that need to happen for the future, but also reminding myself of history and the past. And so I always try to put those two worlds together. And even with my podcast. So I'd say I listen to quite often HBR IdeaCast, which gets sort of where things are going. But I also love Business Wars and really listening about iconic companies and how they competed. There's a Marriott Hilton one. It's great to sort of balance those two things and really think about the success of other companies and what they've done to be successful because a lot of strategies do repeat. They manifest themselves differently, but there's tactics that are definitely repeatable, but then also always keeping abreast of what's around the corner and how I need to be sharing that information with my team to make us the best performing team that we can be.

Roula Amire (38:38):

Ty, thanks for coming on today. I appreciate the time and the conversation.

Ty Breland (39:39):

Likewise. It's great to see you again, and I really enjoyed this.